Sunday, March 23, 2014

Debate number two on Wednesday night at 7:00 PM in the BOA chambers, Crestwood City Hall.



The second Mayoral election debate sponsored by the Republican club will be held at 7:00 PM sharp in the Board chambers of Crestwood City Hall.

We have seen some interesting comments below that came in from the first debate so let's get out and see what they have to say this time.

Please remember that both the candidates have worked very hard for us and I ask you to please refrain from comment's, clapping, or any other distractions to either candidate during the debate.


Tom Ford

NO. 3051

213 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good thoughts Tom. While everyone gets caught up in the excitement of an election, it is easy to forget that these two have collectively put in significant time serving on boards, committees, and as aldermen/mayor. Both clearly care about the city, and both candidates are more capable than many former aldermen (and a few current aldermen).

Depending on outcome, it would be good to see either Mayor Roby appoint Mr. Schlink to serve on one or more boards, or have Mayor Schlink appoint Mr. Roby to take the empty Ward 4 seat. It seems both men have some expertise to offer.

2:57 PM, March 23, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does Mr. Roby live in Ward 4?

3:25 PM, March 23, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

I think Mayor Schlink will gladly welcome anyone who sincerely wants to give their time and expertise for the betterment of Crestwood,.

Now as to Mr. Roby, well I have no way of knowing, but I hope he would do the same.

Tom Ford

3:43 PM, March 23, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Roby lives in Ward 1 so the Mayor could not appoint him to be alderman for ward 4.

"Both clearly care about the city, and both candidates are more capable than many former aldermen (and a few current aldermen)"

Explain how you have come to the conclusion that a few current aldermen are not capable? And who they are?

7:49 PM, March 23, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please explain what capabilities Roby has demonstrated. He has not been active in the city government for 6 years.

9:35 PM, March 23, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@7:49

You are right about Ward 1.

10:29 PM, March 23, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I sure hope MR. Schlink doesn't embarrass himself by doing as another out of touch Roby fan just did and appoint Mr Roby for Ward 4 Alderman!

What next, Roby for Mayor of the Emerald City?

4:29 PM, March 24, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

4:29 PM Blogger: Nope, how about Roby for Crestwood private citizen?

Works for me.

Tom Ford

5:19 PM, March 24, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am always amazed when I read people saying that you have to "experienced" to hold any elected position. What about people with less experience but with real problem solving and critical thinking skills ?What about young people who are passionate to serve and help?

Experience is not a guarantee of lucidity.

8:04 AM, March 25, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

8:04 AM Blogger: Experience is nor always needed, butt face it, when it comes to running anything, it helps.

Young people hardly ever come out for political races, too busy, or they don't want the flack connected with it. By the time they do run, some indeed have the experience needed.

Would you rather your airline pilot be a bit experienced, or would you relax with a two hundred hour pilot in command ( all it takes for a commercial license) at the controls?

In the mayor's race financial experience is a major plus in my mind. Even if he doesn't vote or run the City from day to day, at least he can advise correctly.

Tom Ford

8:33 AM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@crestwood independent

what would you then your best advice to someone who seeks to get elected in Ward 4 but has little experience, ran three times for office in a foreign country but has great insights, is passionate and had great problem solving and critical thinking skills?
thanks

10:35 AM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

let's try again
@crestwood independent

what would be then your best advice to someone who seeks to get elected in Ward 4 but has little experience, ran three times for office in a foreign country but has great insights, is passionate and had great problem solving and critical thinking skills?
thanks

10:37 AM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hIs this a strategy to get everyone to vote for Roby?

Will Roby's company get the concrete deals for the new Crestwood Court development?

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/want-to-buy-the-old-crestwood-plaza-bidding-starts-at/article_4acc97cf-02f2-5945-94d6-0832c75b9a77.html

A million dollars is the minimum starting bid for Crestwood Court, the defunct shopping mall whose owners hope to sell through an online auction.

The auction begins April 21 and concludes April 23.

Crestwood’s final store, a LensCrafters, closed last fall. Back in the day, when it called itself Crestwood Plaza, the mall had scores of tenants, including outposts of major department stores. “Crestwood Plaza, where the big stores are,” was the well-known ad slogan.

After failing to get tax incentives last year to overhaul Crestwood Court, its owners dropped redevelopment plans for what was the St. Louis area’s first regional mall and decided to offer the place for sale.



Under a new owner, the defunct mall, which opened in 1957, would likely be razed.

CBRE, the commercial real state firm marketing the 47-acre Watson Road site, has said the “highest and best use” for the property would be an owner-occupier tear-down and rebuild.

Chicago-based Centrum Partners acquired the struggling property in 2008 for about $17.5 million. With the mall’s tenants dwindling, Centrum sought to tear down most of the existing structure and convert it to new retail and entertainment uses. Some of the initial plans for the proposed entertainment district included a bowling alley, restaurants and a venue for live performances.

Including the purchase price, Centrum and co-owner Angelo, Gordon & Co., a New York-based hedge fund, said they invested $20 million in the property readying it for a revival.

But Crestwood officials balked at approving $34 million in tax-increment financing and new sales taxes for a $124 million redevelopment. Some Crestwood residents and officials said they were concerned that new tenants would hurt other area businesses. Foes also objected to the amount of the public subsidy request.

12:12 PM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What you should have said is:

"But Crestwood officials balked at approving $34 million in tax-increment financing because it (violated the City's Economic Tools Policy passed in 2008 with MR. Roby's vote), and new sales taxes for a $124 million redevelopment.
Some Crestwood residents and officials said they were concerned that new tenants would hurt other area businesses. Foes also objected to the amount of the public subsidy request."

But just once would have worked just as well as the 3 times you posted.
Just saying.

12:51 PM, March 25, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

10:37 AM Blogger: Well if he / she is a citizen I would tell them to put up the funds and run, IF they are qualified that is.

Ton Ford

4:18 PM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two ( roby ). Governing by Roy Robinson/ Roby rules of order. We experienced the anarchy and disorder created by Greer and Robinson. Do not want that experience again.

Should Greer and ROBERTSON. Roy fired Greer.

12:52 PM, March 25, 2014
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Roy fired Greer."

URBAN LEGEND!
Read your copy of the Charter on the removal of a C/A.

2:31 PM, March 25, 2014

5:22 PM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where is the link to this almighty City's Economic Tools Policy that Schlink dug up in the archives that probably isn't worth the paper it's written on? A "policy" from 2008 (right before the worst downturn since the great depression) shouldn't be followed today. TIF projects are to be analyzed in depth individually and on their own merits. Trying to apply a rubber stamp yes or no to a project based on a policy without looking at the specifics of a project is a lazy way to make decisions. But then again, Crestwood has to deal with its "board's lack of understanding of the processes associated with redevelopment of a major property" per PGAV.
http://www.southcountytimes.com/pdalpeditorial.lasso?-token.story=188078.114137

Speaking of experience, Schlink and Roby have served Crestwood almost the same number of years. Jeff was an aldermen for 1 year, and has been mayor for 1 term (4 years). Roby was an aldermen for 3 years. I don't think 4 years to 3 years is a massive service difference. Certainly Roby has more life experience, has lived in Crestwood longer, etc.

7:57 PM, March 25, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

7:57 PM BLOGGER: Perhaps you should READ THE EXISTING POLICY AS VOTED UP BY MR. ROBY before YOU EMBARRASS HIM ANY FURTHER.

It's on the books and its the policy they ALL have to follow!

Now in the words of your apparent candidate, drive up and get It yourself!

You want to change it, find your Alderman and propose a change to the policy, until then Mayor Schlink obeyed the letter of the law.

Are you saying Mr. Roby would have done otherwise?

Tom Ford

8:30 PM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Economic Tools Policy passed in 2008 was not mentioned once as a reason for not approving the Centrum proposal at the time the Centrum proposal was being considered, by Schlink, or any of the aldermen.

To bring it up now is completely disingenuous, and nothing more than election fodder. As a citizen who regularly attends BOA meetings, I'm actually decently offended that Schlink would think so little of everyone's intelligence as to bring up this policy now, as if it was a central part of the debate previously.

If someone can point to any mention of this economic tool policy from 2008 in any meeting minutes or any newspaper article from last year when the Centrum proposal was being considered, I'll withdraw my criticism. Otherwise, my respect for Jeff Schlink has dropped precipitously.

8:36 PM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds like somebody is having a bad vote for Roby day.
Hey! Roby voted for the policy and he didn't know about it, yet he hung the BOA/Mayor out to dry for not caving into Centrum. Roby and all the other Centrum lovers owe the Mayor and the four smart Aldermen who weren't conned into buy Centrums plan, an apology, but I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, tonight on channel 4, Roby said he was in favor of some housing at the mall, something he and Centrum did not favor.
LOL

TOTAL FAIL.

10:23 PM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If someone can point to any mention of this economic tool policy from 2008 in any meeting minutes or any newspaper article from last year when the Centrum proposal was being considered, I'll withdraw my criticism."

*crickets*


The 2008 policy (read: guidelines) would not bind the current board. Perhaps the reason why no one has mentioned it until now. And yet Schlink and his cronies now invoke this Ecomnomic Tools Policy as if its the Gospel. I'm not buying it, and I don't think most other people in Crestwood are either. Bush-league tactics like that smack of desperation.

10:37 PM, March 25, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

Desperation?

How about supporting a candidate who is not transparent when he says he is, who doesn't know the difference between the FOIA and the Sunshine Laws, doesn't think the possible merger of the County and St. Louis is something he wouldn't touch with a "10 foot pole", and who talks like he went to the Roy Robinson School of Orator, “I believe that that was an opportunity from the citizens to speak their voice,” said Roby. Now that's desperate.

I too would be desperate if I was you.

I guess these means an apology to the Mayor and the smart members of the BOA is out of the question?

11:26 PM, March 25, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If someone can point to any mention of this economic tool policy from 2008 in any meeting minutes or any newspaper article from last year when the Centrum proposal was being considered, I'll withdraw my criticism."

*more crickets*

Chuck,

Jeff Schlink gave a variety of reasons he was opposed to the Centrum development at the time it was being discussed, including the amount of the requested subsidy, environmental concerns, tenant mix, etc. Not once did he mentioned a policy from 2008 concerning economic tools. Now that he is running for reelection, all of a sudden the reason that he claims he was opposed to the Centrum Development was because the amount of the subsidy requested was above an arbitrary 15% threshold set by a forgotten 2008 policy.

He should own his previous decision, and the reasons he made it--tell the voters that he was opposed to the Centrum Development for all of the reasons that he listed at the meetings at the time. Coming up with a retroactive reason now is dishonest in my opinion.

7:10 AM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sidenote:

Why does Gregg Roby's opinion on a proposed city/county merger matter? That issue will be on a statewide ballot, and Crestwood's elected officials will have the same say as your average voter.

Should I ask Jeff Schlink his opinion on abortion? Or the crisis in Ukraine? No, because it doesn't matter, and those issues are outside the purview of the office.

7:13 AM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

"Why does Gregg Roby's opinion on a proposed city/county merger matter? That issue will be on a statewide ballot, and Crestwood's elected officials will have the same say as your average voter."

Have you forgotten the fact that both Schlink and Roby were asked the same question?

That the question came for a concerned Crestwood Citizen?

Do you know for 100% sure that the entire state will be asked to vote on a City County merger?

Do you know for sure that Roby did notin fact recall his vote for the 2008 Economic Tools Policy, but didn't bring it up because he was in so deep with Centrum?

Did you know that the City Attorney was asked if the Tools Policy was something the City had to follow and her short answer was yes?

Do you know if Breeding, Wallach, Foot and or Beasley were on the Board in 2008 when the Economic Tools Policy was written?

Do you know ignorance of a policy is not an acceptable excuse to break the policy?

Did you know that the way you are reacting to the Economic tools Policy as it relates to Centrum indicates Roby has nothing else to offer or run on?

Do you realize that Schlink has given many times the reasons for his actions, while Roby has changed from we "gotta have the Centrum proposal" to agreeing with what the BOA wanted (including some housing) and Centrum refused to even consider?

Do you know that every word Mr. Roby and his supporters have made to the BOA is recorded and available for review?

Did you know that Schlink gave Centrum a copy of the Economic Tools Policy before they came back with their request for subsidies totaling over 33%?

Of course not.

Do you recall Roby saying he met with Centrum?
Are you sure Centrum didn't share with Roby the Tools Policy when they met?




8:43 AM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When the day is done we will still have a crumbling deserted Mall 5 years from now.
I see management in action not leadership.

9:38 AM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

9:38 AM Blogger: And you will also note that Mr. Roby could do nothing to change that!

READ THE CHARTER!

Why is it that you seem to want a person who has demonstrated nothing, and changes his position to suit the audience instead of a person who reads and understands the role of Mayor?

Do we really want or for that matter need a full time Mayor bothering the employees, because that is all he could do!

READ THE CHARTER!

We have a City Administrator full time as per the Charter to do the day in and day out business of Crestwood. If any elected official attempts to influence the employees in any way, they can(and should )be removed from office, so what does he plan to do all day long?

Drop the emotion and see the Plaza for what it is, a piece of ground that time and urban growth has passed by. It will never be the same again, and no amount of marches by the MCU or drivel about the Mayor will change that.

You see management in action? Good because that's exactly what we need, not rhetoric that can not change the dynamic were living in now!

Tom Ford

10:24 AM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you know that Schlink gave Centrum a copy of the Economic Tools Policy before they came back with their request for subsidies totaling over 33%?


Would love to see some proof of that Chuck......

11:27 AM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you know that Schlink gave Centrum a copy of the Economic Tools Policy before they came back with their request for subsidies totaling over 33%?


Would love to see some proof of that Chuck......

11:27 AM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

Yup, I do know that for a fact. Go up to City Hall and ask to listen to the tape of the BOA meeting of 3/25/14. Ask City Clerk when she gave the Mayor a copy of the Tools.

"Leadership has been described as "a process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task."

"Management is the function that coordinates the efforts of people to accomplish goals and objectives using available resources efficiently and effectively. Management comprises planning, organizing, staffing, leading or directing, and controlling an organization or initiative to accomplish a goal."

How has MR. Roby exhibited leadership/management skills? Was he a leader of the MCU picketing outside City Hall?

12:21 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chuck,

What was said yesterday in a meeting is not proof of what was done a year ago. Have you seen a copy of an email? If not, then you do not "know for a fact".

No one--not any alderman, not Mayor Schlink, and not Centrum--mentioned these economic tools at the time the Centrum proposal was being debated. If what you are saying is true about the timing (and its almost certainly not), then why wouldn't Jeff Schlink have said at the time the Centrum matter was being considered, "sorry Centrum, your proposal cannot be considered because you have requested an amount of subsidies in excess of the 15% amount allowed by our economic tools policy"? Because it didn't happen.

For the sake of argument, let's pretend for a moment that Mayor Schlink did tell Centrum about the economic tools policy and the 15% threshold--why didn't he mention that to any of the aldermen, and why didn't he tell the public that was the reason that he was opposed to the Centrum development at the time? Why would he make up a myriad of other reasons at the time why he was opposed to the Centrum development without once mentioning the economic tools policy? Because it didn't happen.

Either Jeff Schlink gave pretextual reasons at the time why he was opposed to the Centrum Development if his opposition was actually based on this economic tools policy, or, far more likely, Jeff recently discovered this economic tools policy, and thought it would make good election fodder.



1:47 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

1:47 PM BLOGGER: Moot point since then Alderman Tennesson voted NO on PGAV it was over right then and there!

There is no third chance on that or anything else, no is a vote to kill the deal, nd no is what he voted.

Msyor Schlink had no chance to break any tie as there was no tie!

Tom Ford

2:09 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

PS: PGAV puLled out after that, so...........

Tom Ford

2:10 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Once a week on Channel 4, at 8:00am
there is a program called:
CBS-SUNDAY MORNING.
On Sunday March 23, 2014, the featured story was titled:
" A DYING BREED - AMERICAN SHOPPING
MALLS ".
The presentation, which is available on line to review, explained how much society has
CHANGED, since the mid 1950's when
Shopping Malls began to be developed. Video was shown of the
DEMOLITION of MANY malls along with the " re-development " of some with a totally different theme.
The " NEW WAY " ( on-line shopping ) was acknowledged as
here to stay. That presentation
should be required viewing for all.
I think it is time for the
DEVELOPERS / CONTRACTORS to take
responsibility for the VACANCIES.
We can only shop at so many stores.

Jacqueline Stockhausen
1536 S. Sappington Rd : a.k.a
Crestwood Plaza property line

2:36 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Either Jeff Schlink gave pretextual reasons at the time why he was opposed to the Centrum Development if his opposition was actually based on this economic tools policy, or, far more likely, Jeff recently discovered this economic tools policy, and thought it would make good election fodder."

Only possibility? Have you contacted City Clerk to ask when Mayor first got copy of Tools Policy to give to Centrum? No you havent, instead you will spread any lie or rumor you can to get Roby into office.

If you are an example of what it will be like to Roby our Mayor, I'm moving.

3:01 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why did Mr. Roby refuse to disclose who were his campaign contributors?

Is he afraid what will happen when it is found out that number one was former Mayor Robinson, followed by former Alderman Beasley who already cost the taxpayers $5000 in her attempt to dig up campaign dirt for Roby to run on, that the voters might say, Heck no Gregg?

What else is Mr Roby (the transparent candidate) hiding?

3:06 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only possibility? Have you contacted City Clerk to ask when Mayor first got copy of Tools Policy to give to Centrum? No you havent, instead you will spread any lie or rumor you can to get Roby into office.

Only=one

Either Jeff Schlink gave pretextual reasons at the time why he was opposed to the Centrum Development if his opposition was actually based on this economic tools policy, or, far more likely, Jeff recently discovered this economic tools policy, and thought it would make good election fodder

Either=two

If what you say is true, and the Mayor got a copy of the tools policy to give to Centrum, why has not been mentioned once until now? My BS detector is going off, and its pretty finely tuned. Also, just because the city clerk gave the tools policy to the mayor (assuming she did), that doesn't mean the mayor passed that along to Centrum.

I'm not spreading lies or rumors. I'm pointing out the fact that this tools policy has not been mentioned (at least publicly) until now.

3:27 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.callnewspapers.com/Articles-i-2007-09-19-202163.112112-Kudos-offered-to-majority-of-Crestwood-board-by-Call.html

Mr. Roby has been lauded for casting votes in favor of transparency and media access previously while serving as the President of the BOA. He didn't have any trouble disagreeing with Roy Robinson then either when it was appropriate.

3:39 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

3:39 PM BLOGGER: Did you really read the article, or are you "wishful reading?"

If Mr. Roby was all that transparent why did he want the Biard not to reveal WHO blitzed the Clerks office to the tune of $5000.00?

If it looks like a duck............

Tom Ford

4:19 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

http://www.callnewspapers.com/Articles-Opinions-i-2014-03-26-271873.112112-Crestwood-mayors-service-to-city-merits-a-second-term.html

Don't sound to me like the Call thinks Mr. Roby is all that transparent.

Tom Ford

4:22 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@4:19

Being for transparent government is one thing--being in favor of the government being able to vilify a private citizen who is being a government watchdog (by making sunshine requests) works against government transparency. The law is the law (and the sunshine requestors are disclosed), but since the person who made this particular request has been slammed in public, at meetings, and in the newspapers, how many other citizens do you think are eager to exercise their rights to make sunshine requests?

Probably less than before, which leads to less government transparency, rather than more.

4:24 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not a surprising endorsement. Mike Anthony hates Mimi Duncan., and his editorials frequently expose his personal biases.

4:31 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

4:31 PM BLOGGER : I thought Roby was running? Where does it mention her?

That's so lame you should be on the obamacare apology team!

Tom Ford

4:38 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm pointing out the fact

Not a fact of you cant prove it.

5:49 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"government being able to vilify a private citizen who is being a government watchdog (by making sunshine requests)"

Really, who in Govt is vilifying former Alderman Beasley by making her name know as allowed by the Sunshine Law?

The Call is being horrible, just horrible towards MS.Duncan because they have made published the fact that she is one of Roby's contributors and her house is his election HQ. A fact that can be discovered if you request a FOIA (duh) at the County Election office, or read the bottom of one of Roby's signs.

Tom,
If you listen to Mary Duncan on the tapes when she as on the BOA, she always felt that somebody was picking on her because she was a woman, even when her name wasn't mentioned! So poster 4:31 should not be a surprise considering Mary Duncan's documented paranoid behavior in the past.

6:07 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will be interested to see what happens to the mall at the April auction. Let's hope it doesn't suffer the same fate as that old gas station at the corner of Sappington and Watson--they conducted an auction of that property, and no one bid on it, and now it continues to sit.

In 2008, Crestwood's RFP for the mall property yielded no interest, despite solicitations sent to over 100 prominent developers. In 2012, Centrum was the only company to respond to a second RFP.

Is the third time the charm?
Or will Crestwood realize that no one is interested in developing that property without significant public assistance.

Will be an interesting year.

7:15 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

3:39 PM BLOGGER: I guess You know this is March 2014 right?


The quote you offered up was from September 19, 2007!

Sad,to say that's not current or relivent to thr Roby we see today, now Is it.

Tom Ford

7:34 PM, March 26, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The quote you offered up was from September 19, 2007!
Sad,to say that's not current or relivent to thr Roby we see today, now Is it.


It is naive to listen to a political candidate's promises--it is far better to judge them on their actions (impossible for a first time candidate, but a good plan for anyone else). Ergo, the best way to ascertain how Mr. Roby would function in office is to look at how he did the first time. Looking back, he was elected President of the BOA, and received accolades from the press.

Besides, going back to the late aughts is all the rage--2007 newspaper articles, 2008 economic tools policies, etc.

10:31 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

"one is interested in developing that property without significant public assistance."

Then the BOA needs to change to the Economic Tools Policy supported by MR. Roby when he was an Alderman. Hope Gregg is ok with that.

11:58 PM, March 26, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

10:31 PM Blogger: Horse feathers, nice try but horse feathers!

Tom Ford

5:15 AM, March 27, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

11:58 PM Blogger: Greg is OK with whatever and whichever way the wind blows.

Tom Ford

5:16 AM, March 27, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

I guess Mr. Roby must have lost the debate elsewise all his supporters would be lauding his accomplishment.

NOTHING...........

So I guess he lost again.

Tom Ford

5:18 AM, March 27, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This site covers Mayor Schlink like the lame stream media covers President Obama.(let's see how long this stays up)

6:42 AM, March 27, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

6:42 AM BLOGGER: As soon as you give us something to cover, whe do it.

Now since you didn't refute my comment I will tell you we have nothing else from your camp to cover, and this WILL STAY UP!

Tom Ford

6:50 AM, March 27, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then the BOA needs to change to the Economic Tools Policy supported by MR. Roby when he was an Alderman. Hope Gregg is ok with that.


I would hope both candidates would support the modification or elimination of that policy. That would actually be a good question for both of them. A 15% cap is not really practical, and not really in line with most other developments in recent times--and by all accounts, the renovation of this mall will be an especially difficult and expensive endeavor.

8:02 AM, March 27, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is naive to listen to a political candidate's promises--it is far better to judge them on their actions (impossible for a first time candidate, but a good plan for anyone else). Ergo, the best way to ascertain how Mr. Roby would function in office is to look at how he did the first time. Looking back, he was elected President of the BOA, and received accolades from the press."

Mr. Roby, if memory serves, was in favor of Proposition S in 2006. He recently stated that he was in favor of Proposition 1 in 2008. I recall Gregg moderating one of the public information meetings in early 2008 at City Hall.

I've read his recent statements in which he says we need to be upfront with the residents about the city's financial condition. I've heard similar language before. Translated, it means we need a tax increase.

If Mr. Roby wins the mayor's seat, I think the Roby administration will be taxing indeed.

9:07 AM, March 27, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

I understand we may be able to get a video of the debate last night.

If I do, I will post it on the Blog so we can all see what was said, and by whom.

Tom Ford

9:58 AM, March 27, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

PS: Maybe we can then see why Mr. Roby was trying to run from the fact that Mr. Robinson was his lead financial supporter.

Is that construed to be a a negative now sir, and if so why?

Tom Ford

10:02 AM, March 27, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

Maybe the best question last at the debate last night was.

"Mr. Roby, if elected as a full time Mayor how would your administration be different that our last full time Mayor, Roy Robinson."

His answer was he wasn't Roy, yet Roy is number one contributor.

I think this Weeks Call is hitting the mailboxes of Crestwood and it's editorial, letters and coverage of the forum last week must have impacted Mr. Roby adversely. His Facebook has started to attack and mud sling, usually an act of desperation.

I was visiting with a neighbor tow days ago who told me that while he isn't that interested in politics, after seeing MR Roby on Channel 4 news, he is voting for Schlink. I asked him why and he answered "Roby claimed he was an expert on mall redevelopment, when he was just a brick salesman for 20 plus years, what does he know about redevelopment?"
I couldn't answer his question.

4:18 PM, March 27, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

4:8 PM BLOGGER: An old time lawyer once to mr that in court when you have the facts, bang the table with the facts. When you dont, bang the table with conjecture, and when you don't have that, just bang the table!

The Roby campaign is apparently in stage three, just bang the table, but what would you expect if you don't have anything else?

I wonder if Mr. Robinson is going to ask for his money back now that he seems to be personna non- gratta?

Tom Ford

5:24 PM, March 27, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what does he know about redevelopment?


Enough to know that when you don't know everything, you ask for expert advice. Something Mr. Schlink and the other aldermen (all of whom have no redevelopment experience) might do well to heed.

10:26 PM, March 27, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gee the expert said for free that the Centrum idea wouldn't work. Period

Centrum was give a copy of the Economic Tools Policy. Priod

Centrum knew they were asking for more that what the Economic Tools Policy called for. Period

Knowing all of the above, Centrum still refused to change their idea. Period.

Mr. Roby was all in for the Centrum idea until 3/25/2014 as seen on the 6:00p.m. Channel 4 news and as he said at the debate on 3/26/2014. Period.

Mr. Roby has said, since 3/25/2014 he wanted the same idea as the BOA asked Centrum to modify their idea to. Period.

Mr. Roby was a great brick salesperson. Period.



Period.





11:02 PM, March 27, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Centrum was give a copy of the Economic Tools Policy. Priod




Yeah, there is actually no proof whatsoever of that. Putting "period" (or "Priod") after all of your sentences though makes it sound very authoritative though.

Also, I don't understand the revelry in failure. All of the Schlink supporters are so excited that redevelopment of the mall failed. Most people get excited by development, and groundbreakings. Ballpark village (containing some of the same tenants that were once in play for Crestwood) will be making a killing soon. It was built with tax credits and TIF. Crestwood is anemic to TIF though; people would rather stand on principle and have no project than have tax dollars go to a transformative project. It's no wonder the world has passed Crestwood by, and relegated it to second-tier status among St. Louis County municipalities. Most of the people on this forum would rather complain about Greer and swim clubs than look toward the future. It's easy to complain about the past and present--it's much harder to show some vision for the future.

11:32 PM, March 27, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ask former City Attorney Rob Golterman,
or current City Clerk. They can provide you proof.

"Yeah, there is actually no proof whatsoever of that." Well, the proof is out there, all you have to do is ask. BTW what kind of proof would you accept?

Only thing I'm happy with is the City, to use Dr. Simpson words, "dodged a bullet, when they didn't get hooked up with Centrum"

What I can't understand is why the pro Roby folks still believe that approving Centrum would have turned out to be a good thing for Crestwood? The plan and idea stunk, and Centrum wouldn't budge on any points much less the amount of public money they wanted.

That's what I'm happy about.

Period!

2:32 AM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what kind of proof would you accept?

It is undisputed there was no public mention of the economic tools policy until 2014, and so if it was a talking point between the city and Centrum, it was done in secret. To answer your question, a letter or email from the C/A, city attorney, some alderman, or mayor to Centrum, Centrum's attorney, etc. would obviously suffice as proof. I find it unbelievable that if this economic tools policy was a barrier to the development, that neither Centrum nor anyone affiliated with the city raised it once at a BOA meeting, at a work session, or at the various town hall meetings.


The plan and idea stunk, and Centrum wouldn't budge on any points much less the amount of public money they wanted.


The City never made a counteroffer, and so that is hypothetical. We will never know what would have happened had the TIF commission convened, and found that the amount of TIF that was justified was less than the amount requested. We also don't know what would have happened had the City convened the TIF commission, received approval, and then told Centrum that tenants would need to be unveiled/secured prior to final BOA approval of the plan. Going through the process through the TIF commission stage would not have cost anything but time.

At the end of the day, there is certainly the chance that the project wouldn't have been viable, or an agreement couldn't have been reached. Only the naive say the project was a sure thing. However, it is clear to be that the project process was prematurely aborted by the BOA.

7:03 AM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

11:32 PM Blogger: "Also, I don't understand the revelry in failure."

No we revel in the fact that failure was not allowed to happen in Crestwood, thanks to the Board and Mayor Schlink!

Now as YOU seem to have ALL the answers why aren't YOU running for office instead of your boy, or are YOU one of the "one trick pony's" that didn't have the time or courage to run again?

Tom Ford

8:10 AM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No we revel in the fact that failure was not allowed to happen in Crestwood, thanks to the Board and Mayor Schlink!

Something is better than nothing. I would rather have Barnes and Noble back rather than Savers, and I would rather not have Kash King (or whatever the payday loan place is by Shop and Save), among other businesses, but I would rather have businesses than empty storefronts--businesses pay taxes, buy utilities, and hire people. Centrum's plan wasn't perfect, but there's was the only plan. Given the location of the site, we aren't likely to get a "perfect" plan. Most developers have already looked at the site, and walked away. Maybe next time will be different. I can't imagine the Board's amateur hour performance handling the Centrum proposal reassured other prospective developers that the city could properly handle a redevelopment process though.



Now as YOU seem to have ALL the answers why aren't YOU running for office instead of your boy, or are YOU one of the "one trick pony's" that didn't have the time or courage to run again?

I don't claim to have all of the answers. I haven't run before, but perhaps I will consider it in the future. My worry is that with kids and a job that I would be spread too thin to properly handle the position. Jeff Schlink being case in point :)

9:18 AM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

OMG

"The City never made a counteroffer, and so that is hypothetical."


I guess you didn't attend the BOA meetings or their work sessions? The minutes of both of these meetings will show there was nothing hypothetical at all.
In fact MR. Roby addressed the City's counter offers to Centrum in the debate of Thursday 3/26/2014, where he spoke against them.

Now is that proof enough for you?

RE: Centrum and City's Economic Tool's Policy.
Has it ever occurred to you that giving a developer the Tool's Policy when they first express an interest in opening a business in Crestwood is part of a standard procedure of the City? That there is no email or letter or anything else that you demand for proof of same? Have you ever thought to ask the people that have been listed for verification that the Policy was given to Centrum?
NO, instead you base you position on the desire to discredit the City and by doing so possibly effect the outcome of an upcoming election.

If I were you the more important questions I would ask is why MR.ROBY in an act of "transparency" has refused to name those who have given money/time to his campaign? And why he opposed the releasing of former Alderman Beasley's name as the person who by asking for thousands of city emails cost the tax payers over $5000?

Tom,
I'll take "one trick pony" for $1000!

9:42 AM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

9:18 AM Blogger: "
Something is better than nothing."

Not really, they aren't making dirt anymore, and that spot is about all we have left to do something with.

The proposal by Centrum was very carefully evaluated by our Board and turned down because it was not a viable solution for Crestwood.

I know you know that after three or four different planning companies looked at it, the property was judged by the last (Centrum's own planners) to be best used as a park!

I understand your concerns, we all share them, but we have to get the most bang for the buck available and Centrum wasn't it.

It will be sold at auction just like North West Plaza was, and we will see a development (I hope it's mixed retail and residential) come along,.

Thank goodness we had the foresight to say no to a failed proposal when we saw it, and thank goodness for Alderman like Dan Tennessen who voted no on the second reading of the proposal by PGAV thus rendering the project dead on arrival.

Stay the course, don't waver and you will see that in time the Board, the Mayor, and yes even I were right about this.

Oh and, I am glad you may run in the future, we need all of our citizens to serve somewhere. And let's be very clear on this point, Crestwood has a City manager to run the City, it's a very important Charter item.

Mayor Schlink is not allowed to direct the employees, nor are the Alderman in any way, shape or form. Any elected official who does so is subject to censure and removal from office.

Our Mayor's position is a part time one on purpose, the framers of the Charter knew that, and ALL of us should know that.

That said what would Mr. Roby do for eight hours a day? If he were to hold meetings, direct employees, and interject himself into the day to day running of Crestwood, he would be charged with violating the Charter, so what would he do?

The City is in very good health right now. The funda are balanced, were operating in the black, and we have an excellent City Administrator thanks to the Board and Mayor Schlink.

Now if that doesn't deserve another term, I don't know what does!

Tom Ford

9:48 AM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

9:42 AM Blogger: Mr. Morre, that would be behind door number two.

Door's number one and three have the "Nothing to see here" grouping.

Tom Ford

9:55 AM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

What ever happened to the bank on Watson Rd. that the Roby supporters had to have else we be sued by the...... ? In a word, NOTHING! That's right it has never opened! Another waste of space and time.

Also the Wall Street Journal has am article on theaters that shows a steady decline in attendance since 2004, and Mr. Roby and his supporters wanted to toss in $34 Million dollars for something that is on the decline.

Brilliant leadership!

Tom Ford

10:29 AM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

In what can only be called an act of desperation a Roby supporter has placed a sign in the front yard of a recently deceased person.

Yes the house is vacant ( which is why I won't reveal the location,) and yes the person is deceased!

Unless Chicago has been transplanted to Crestwood dead people and vacant homes do not vote!

One more pathetic attempt by the Roby camp to make the voters believe he is a viable candidate, SAD!


Tom Ford

12:01 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It will be sold at auction just like North West Plaza was, and we will see a development (I hope it's mixed retail and residential) come along,.



I guess we'll see Tom. I love this city, and I genuinely hope that the auction produces a buyer with great ideas and vision that is willing to pay for more of the cost of redevelopment then Centrum was.
I don't have a lot of optimism though. Keep in mind that before this auction was scheduled, the property was listed for sale with no price, to see what kind of offers they could get. With this auction being scheduled, I'm guessing that there were no satisfactory offers. Also, there may be an unknown reserve at this auction (10 million, 12 million, who knows), and Centrum may remain the owner if the auction results in no bids, or if the high bid doesn't meet the reserve.

Finally, I am concerned that a similar debacle may unfold even with a new developer if there are any requests for tax subsidies from that developer. If Crestwood runs off another prospective developer, than we should be ready to have that lot sit empty for a long, long time.

I am interested in seeing what happens in the election, but it is probably far more important to Crestwood's future what happens at the subsequent auction.

12:05 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That said what would Mr. Roby do for eight hours a day? If he were to hold meetings, direct employees, and interject himself into the day to day running of Crestwood, he would be charged with violating the Charter, so what would he do?


I agree that the C/A is the one directing employees. I would like to see the mayor comprehensively studying what works and what doesn't in other comparable St. Louis County municipalities, and making suggestions to the BOA on code updates, policy updates, departmental updates, etc.

Take field trips--see new parks in other cities when they open, go look at new police cars in other cities--don't do anything prohibited by the charter, but strive to be a more effective mayor by bringing good and new ideas to the Board on a regular basis.

12:09 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In what can only be called an act of desperation a Roby supporter has placed a sign in the front yard of a recently deceased person.


Inexcusable, but perhaps inadvertent? Could the person have requested a sign before they passed from this life? Could the supporter have placed the sign at the wrong address after someone else requested one? If someone is just randomly putting up signs, I would let the candidate know so he can rein that person in.

Also, please have Jeff Schlink take down his signs in Affton along Rock Hill outside the borders of Crestwood :)

12:11 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:09 PM BLOGGER: Take trips? On the City account? First the Roby people say that we're broke, now they say that it's ok if Roby takes junkets?

WOW. WOW, WOW!

Tom Ford

12:19 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:11 PM BLOGGER: Inadvertnt? No on your life! They knew it because no one answered the door to give permission!

The do ask permission before they trespass on private property do they not?

Tom Ford

12:23 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:11 PM BLOGGER: The candidate I am told was called on another issue such as this but NEVER RESPONDED!

More direct, hands on leadership qualities I suppose.

Tom Ford

12:27 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mayor doesn't get a city car. Driving to Sunset Hills or Kirkwood or Webster every so often is not something that is unreasonable for a mayor to do. If you feel Crestwood has the best municipal government in the county and has nothing it could improve upon by learning from its neighbors, than I guess you won't agree with me then.


To your last post, oftentimes, people will call or email a candidate and say "Please put up a sign in my yard" (that's how I got mine in the last mayoral election). I wasn't home when the sign went up--it was just there when I came home from work. The phone call was asking for the sign was the permission. If that occurred here, then I don't see the problem. If it didn't occur, and a sign just went up, then that is a problem. You shouldn't automatically jump to the worst conclusion.

12:27 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Signs don't vote.

12:32 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:05 PM BLOGGER: I have 45 years invested in Crestwood, and I believe we're on the right track to success at that site.

Your right, the auction will be a very important mile stone in the project. That said, I am confident we will be well served when the final dust settles.

Notice that the MCU, IT'S "Cell," Roby, or those who say they would do...... Have any say in the outcome.

Tom Ford

12:34 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:27 PM. BLOGGER: come on, we all know way you meant! Our Mayor Schlink meets with the neighbors on a regular basis, And you know it.

Where do you plan to send your boy to that's different pray tell?

Tom Ford

12:40 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:27 PM BLOGGER: Right, who answered for the deceased in a vacant house?

The house has been vacant for some time ( pre election) who gave the approval?

Oh by the way, the nearest relative lives out of town,.

Tom Ford

12:45 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@12:40

When's the last time Jeff came to the board and said, "I think we could save some money by doing ____like Sunset Hills" or "Kirkwood's ordinance on ____________is more up to date on ours and we should look into adopting it". I don't see enough of it. I see someone who is mainly reactive rather than proactively trying to improve the city.

@12:45

Then I would contact the candidate. Unless a volunteer put up a sign at a wrong address (112 instead of 121 or something), then that sign should come down, and shouldn't have gone up in the first place.

1:23 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I did have an opportunity to break a tie on a mall redevelopment issue (the planner), and I chose not to," said Schlink. "This issue was too important to ignore the will of half of our residents, as represented by their aldermen, in favor of the other half. I was not elected to dictate my will. If I broke the tie on such an important issue, it would be the same as excusing all eight aldermen … and leave myself on the dais with a single vote to determine the fate of this project."

Schlink said he was elected to uphold the city's charter, which calls for legislative authority to belong to aldermen, with the mayor limited to executive oversight only.

Read more: http://www.southcountytimes.com/Articles-Election-Coverage-i-2014-03-28-191943.114137-Roby-Challenges-Schlink-For-Mayors-Post.html#ixzz2xHeU7Sru
Follow us: @SoCoTimes on Twitter | SouthCountyTimes on Facebook


That is one of the stupidest quotes I have ever read.

First, ummm, Jeff, check out Section 4.4(a) of the Charter. You get to break ties!

Second, "This issue was too important to ignore the will of half of our residents, as represented by their aldermen"--by not breaking the tie, you realize you ignored the will of half of the residents as represented by their aldermen (who were in favor of the project).
As mayor, that comes withe the territory. By not making a decision, you cast a "no" vote and made a decision. If you can't handle the spotlight, then don't be mayor.

1:39 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

1:23 PM BLOGGER : None of us would know when the last time was since it wouldent be an agenda item, now would it?



By the way, why does Crestwood need to follow any other town's line if thinking anyway?

We have a City Administrtor who is responsible for holding down the costs, and as far as I can see he is doing. Gret job of it. ( we're in the black, funds are balanced.)

What would ANY Mayor do differently given the constraints of the Charter?

Tom Ford

3:42 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When's the last time ANY Crestwood Mayor came to the board and said, "I think we could save some money by doing ____like Sunset Hills" or "Kirkwood's ordinance on ____________is more up to date on ours and we should look into adopting it". I don't see enough of it. I see someone who is mainly reactive rather than proactively trying to improve the city.

3:48 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@3:48

Fair point. Judged by the standards of his predecessors, Jeff has not done a bad job, just a mediocre job.

@3:42
By the way, why does Crestwood need to follow any other town's line if thinking anyway?

No reason not to compare to make sure we are doing things the best, most efficient, and most common sense way. In some things I'm sure we are, but I'm sure there are areas that could be improved upon. Some things seem like we do them because "we have always done them that way", and every once in a while, it's good to look at those things and see if they are really the best way to do things.

We have a City Administrtor who is responsible for holding down the costs, and as far as I can see he is doing. Gret job of it. ( we're in the black, funds are balanced.)

I think Mr. Sime is doing a pretty good job, especially with the cards he has been dealt. His job is the day to day management of the parks department, fire department, police department, administration department, public works department--I don't know how much time he has for long-term strategic thinking--to me that should be within the purview of the mayor.

4:19 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

4:29 PM BLOGGER: good points except Mayor Schlink is above average if you ask me. Remember the days when we were embarrassed every time the papers came out over what whoever said from the Dias?

Now as to the strategic thinking,we have a committee of Alderman who are charged with that very same thing, it's called the ways and means committe, snd again they do an excellent lob.

The roll of Mayor in a town such as ours is somewhat limited in scope, don't be taken in by those ho say so and so could / would do this.

Yes the Mayor can meet with prospective new business people, and yes he / she can help to attract new business, but that's it, no promises, guarantees, or sayin thy have the authority to do..........

We have a fine Board, and we now have n economic commission to attract new business, so I say, stay the course.

Tom Ford

4:42 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In non-Crestwood news, I really wish Mr. Anti-TIF Rex would stop donating money to Dooley, who is perhaps the worst politician in the state.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/political-fix/major-benefactor-adds-another-to-dooley-campaign/article_689c0375-97e9-5b21-948a-9184392ad2a7.html

I can take Steve Stenger, or Rick Stream, but St. Louis County can do without Dooley.

9:10 PM, March 28, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey!

If you missed either of the debates just go to

youtube.com

and do a search for Gregg Roby, who explains the role of Mayor of Crestwood and tells us the Charter REQUIRES the Mayor to break a tie!

11:16 PM, March 28, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

11:16 PM Blogger: Well my friend, here is the section of the charter that covers that.

"Section 4.4 POWERS AND DUTIES.
(a) BOARD OF ALDERMEN MEETINGS - The Mayor shall preside at meetings
of the Board of Aldermen, but shall not vote on any question except in case of a tie. The
Mayor shall neither preside over the Board’s deliberations nor vote in cases where the
Mayor’s personal or financial interest in the issue being considered by the Board conflicts
with the interest of the city. The Mayor may call meetings of the Board of Aldermen as
provided in Section 3.10(a) of this Charter.
(b) APPROVAL OF LEGISLATION - An ordinance or resolution adopted by the
Board of Aldermen shall be presented to the Mayor for approval. The Mayor shall either
sign the same, or within seven (7) days of receipt of the ordinance or resolution, return it
with a written statement explaining the reasons for disapproval. Ordinances or
resolutions vetoed by the Mayor shall be considered at the next regular meeting of the
Board of Aldermen, and the Board of Aldermen may pass the ordinance or resolution
over the veto by an affirmative vote of three-fourths (3/4) of the authorized membership."

Now please tell us just where it says the Mayor MUST break a tie? HINT it doesn't say that at all now does it.

ALL Mayors I have seen (and that's been quite a few,) have abstained from voting on a tie from time to time, and yet some want us to believe Mr. Roby has uncovered ancient scrolls that tell us they ALL have been wrong?

What, oh what will his biggest contributor (former mayor Robinson) have to say about that? It looks like Mr. Roby has tossed him under the bus.

We have a very knowledgeable City Attorney who advises our Board and the Mayor as to Roberts Rules Of Order (our Bible so to speak,) and had the Mayor been wrong (he wasn't) she would have told him so (she didn't.)

Maybe one of the Roby support's could file another FOIA form and spend some more of our money for nothing getting a legal opinion on the duties of Mayor. Or possibly they all could just read it for what it is, and not what they want it to be!

Tom Ford

3:55 AM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen Mr. Ford!

6:26 AM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Got to this web address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaonIPr3xPO

Or

Go to youtube.com and search for crestwood mayor debate

7:19 AM, March 29, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

7:19 AM Blogger: Reposting the site is like watching the movie Titanic. The ship is still going to sink no matter how many times you watch it.

And so goes the debate, Mr. Roby was incorrect the first time, and he will be incorrect all the subsequent times as well.

Amazing isn't it.

Tom Ford

7:40 AM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Mayor shall preside at meetings
of the Board of Aldermen, but shall not vote on any question except in case of a tie.

All the charter says is that the mayor cannot vote, unless there is a tie, in which case it implies that he then shall vote--or exercise his right to abstain.

Mr. Roby didn't say that the mayor was required to vote yes to break a tie--he said he was required to vote in case of a tie. I think you are both slightly wrong.

In "normal" Robert's Rules of Order, the Mayor/Chairman/President actually can vote on all questions, unless that power is modified by local bylaws (such as our Charter). In case of a tie, I think Robert's Rules of Order in conjunction with our charter do compel the mayor to do something--he can either vote yes breaking the tie, vote no breaking the tie, or abstain, resulting in a tie and thus leading to the failure of whatever matter was being considered. I think the only thing Mr. Roby misspoke on was that an abstention--whether made in this case by a mayor faced with a tie, or anytime an alderman abstains from a vote, is technically not a vote, but rather a failure to vote.

But I know you guys are just looking for any petty thing to harp about and really don't care. Gregg was President of the BOA--he understands the Charter and Rules of Order.

9:19 AM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Roby said
"it is the responsibility by Charter, of the Mayor to vote in the case of a tie"
Followed by "I would take that opportunity to utilize that authority if the occasion arises".

How can it be that the "Mayor has the responsibility to vote" changed to "I would utilize that authority"?

Mr. Roby realizes and is acknowledging the Mayor has the right and power to break a tie vote as it is authorized by the Charter, but it is not a responsibility. If it was a responsibility, wouldn't Mr Roby have said "I would have obeyed the Charter and would have broken the tie"? Is he accusing Mr. Schlink of violating the Charter by not breaking a tie?

Mr. Schlink said it best by saying that the people who are upset that he didn't break the tie, would have been just s upset if he had broken the tie and voted no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaonIPr3xP0
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjoUyLoDK4s

9:54 AM, March 29, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

9:10 AM Blogger: " Gregg was President of the BOA--he understands the Charter and Rules of Order."

OK, if you say he knows this, I will give you a point for his understanding of the rules of order.

Now since he does (according to you) in fact understand the rules, why does he not seem to want to follow them ?

By the way were not looking for anything, simply stating his position as he has marketed it.

Tom Ford

11:40 AM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't profess to know the inner workings of Gregg Roby's mind, but my impression of what he was trying to say was that in case of a tie, he would either vote affirmatively or negatively, rather than abstaining as Jeff Schlink chose to do. All are permissible options under the Charter obviously. In the first debate, Jeff elaborated on why he chose not to break ties, because he felt that it usurped the legislative powers of the aldermen. Gregg disagreed with this position, and I'm inclined to support Gregg's position on this point. Our charter's provision concerning mayoral voting in the case of a tie is modeled after numerous state constitutions, and the national constitution ("The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided").

Personally, I think someone should vote yes or no (whether they are an aldermen or a mayor voting in the case of a tie), and only abstain if they have a conflict of interest or something. Take a stand; don't abstain.

11:59 AM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found MCU's Mary Chubb Letter to the Editor in this week's SunCrest Call to display either ignorace or deception when she stated that all MCU at St. Elizabeth's wanted was the appointment of a "PLANNER". When a planner is appointed that is not all that happens. A TIF Commission is also automatically created and the initial task of the planner is to do a blighting analysis of the mall. Guess what??? THE TIF FOR CENTRUM IS OFF AND RUNNING. Ignorance or intentional deception of the public??????

12:50 PM, March 29, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

11:59 AM Blogger: By not voting either way are you not in effect telling the alderman TO GO BACK AND WORK IT OUT?

In fact I would be doing just that as far too many times we see the Board locked four to four no matter what the subject.

I am of the belief that he did the right thing by sending that message to the ENTIRE Board.

In any case, as a Veteran I just want to see the eligible voters at the polls on April 7th.

There really is no reason we can't do that, and Lord knows we should out of respect for those who have died to give us that right!!

^Tom Ford

2:08 PM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I don't profess to know the inner workings of Gregg Roby's mind"

Say no more.

Not in the mind reading business so I dont know what Gregg was thinking when he said all he wanted was City to do was hire a planner. Just the same thing as Mary Chubb (of Sunset Hills) wanted for the same reasons.

Wonder if either were trying to mislead, deceive, or were not aware of the impact of "just hiring" a planner?

2:44 PM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wonder if either were trying to mislead, deceive, or were not aware of the impact of "just hiring" a planner?

It's not automatic, although oftentimes the two are done in conjunction with one another. Gregg is correct on this one.

http://www.callnewspapers.com/Articles-Impact-News-i-2013-06-19-267455.112112-At-mayors-urging-Crestwood-aldermen-look-for-common-ground-on-mall-proposal.html

"The PGAV planning study is a precursor to sending the proposed redevelopment project to the St. Louis County TIF Commission. On May 14, Schlink indicated he would break the board's tie on the condition that the proposal not move immediately to the TIF Commission."

Even when Jeff was initially willing to approve a planner, he wanted to separate the two issues. Even if the TIF commission were convened, that is not the end of the matter. The BOA has the final say. And sometimes the TIF commission rejects a deal, and then the deal is modified, and it goes back to the TIF commission two or three times.





In any case, as a Veteran I just want to see the eligible voters at the polls on April 7th.

There really is no reason we can't do that, and Lord knows we should out of respect for those who have died to give us that right!!


Amen Tom!

And for all of those Crestwood citizens, please keep in mind that both Mr. Schlink and Mr. Roby are in favor of Prop. G for Lindbergh, and you should be too. The Post had a good article about the enrollment boom in Lindbergh this morning:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/housing-turnover-means-enrollment-boom-in-lindbergh-schools/article_b88bcb4a-9fde-5295-9f7c-083bd5bf69bf.html

I know my neighbors who have sold the last couple of years have had good success selling their homes within 30-45 days, and all of the sales were to families who wanted to be in Lindbergh. We are lucky to have such a great district here.

Martha Duchild wrote a very well-written letter to the South County Times on this issue as well:

http://www.southcountytimes.com/Site.Letters.html#axzz2xOGSRG1D

4:41 PM, March 29, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

4:41PM BLOGGER: Things like prop G and our schools are where our tax monies should go.

100% agreed here, the district needs it, they produce a quality education, and we need to support that.

While your at the poll's voting, please give them a yes for our kids future.

Tom Ford

5:09 PM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mayor Schlink had three options when the BOA deadlocked on the vote: aye, nay, or not to break the tie (abstain from casting an aye or nay vote). Having a conflict of interest is not the only reason for an abstention.

Whether you agree or disagree with the mayor's decision, there is a legitimate reason for not voting to break the tie. Perhaps the mayor wanted to give the board an opportunity to work out their differences over Centrum's proposed concept. Had he voted either up or down, he would have deprived the board of that opportunity. Perhaps he felt that a more unified board (one that had an opportunity to come together on a mutually agreed-upon response to Centrum's proposal) would help future discussions. Perhaps he felt that an up or down vote would have further entrenched the differences on the BOA and jeopardized future redevelopment conversations. I don't claim to know what the mayor was thinking either, but I think they make sense given the mayor's comments.

As it turns out, the BOA did come together at a work session and did agree on what they wanted to see as part of a redevelopment proposal (mixed-use). Centrum refused to consider the BOA's suggestions, effectively ending the negotiations.

At least there will be unanimity among the BOA when it is time to consider a new proposal, and prospective developers will have a better idea of what kind of proposal is likely to receive BOA approval.

Martha Duchild

5:53 PM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe one of the reasons Lindbergh is asking for a tax increase is they have the most TIF's in the entire State.
TIF's do cost Crestwood Taxpayers!

6:27 PM, March 29, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

Suhhhh, there is a certain group in Crestwood that believes they are FREE!

We don't want to upset them now do we?

Tom Ford

7:20 PM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of the TIFs previously granted in the Lindbergh District are now expired. I am almost certain the TIF that led to the development of the plaza with Toys R Us and Home Depot has ended (which means that plaza is now producing revenue for Lindbergh that wasn't there previously), and Gravois Bluffs ended last year:

http://www.callnewspapers.com/Articles-School-News-i-2013-12-18-270365.112112-Lindbergh-board-OKs-201314-revised-budget.html

Now that the Gravois Bluffs TIF is over, that area is producing 2 million in revenue for Lindbergh that wasn't there previously, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Lindbergh's request for money now is due to their exploding enrollment, not to TIF. It probably doesn't help that the mall's assessment has continued to drop too.

Everyone would prefer to have development without TIF, but I think most people understand that some amount of TIF is going to be necessary for the mall. When the TIF is paid off, Lindbergh will get the benefit of a revitalized, tax-producing enterprise. Hopefully the next developer will have a plan that a supermajority of Crestwood can rally behind, and will be willing to accept a little less in TIF than Centrum.

9:10 PM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:10 PM March 29

If TIFs are so wonderful for school districts, why aren't they consistently and universally endorsed by school district representative who vote as members of TIF commissions?

Martha Duchild

10:42 PM, March 29, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TIFs aren't wonderful for school districts in the short run, but can pay off in the long run in the appropriate circumstances.

They shouldn't be universally endorsed by anyone, especially school districts. Sometimes the amount is too high, sometimes the project is feasible without TIF; there are a myriad of reasons why TIF may not be warranted in a specific instance. Each project takes a careful cost-benefit analysis.

I think Lindbergh has voted to approve slightly over 50% of the TIF projects that have come before them, which shows that they carefully consider each proposed project (like they carefully consider everything else).

TIF in some amount will be necessary for the development of the mall property--what form and amount that will take remains to be seen. Given a reasonable project, though, I wouldn't assume Lindbergh's opposition.

8:24 AM, March 30, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:24 AM March 30

I completely agree with your statement regarding Lindbergh's assessment of issues which have a financial impact on the district.

People have been conditioned to think that TIF is a necessary component of redevelopment ("TIF in some amount will be necessary for the development of the mall property"). If this were true, then states that do not offer TIF as an incentive for retail development would have no new retail developments at all. Moreover, the state where TIF originated would not have recently decided (50 years after its TIF laws were established) to abolish its use for retail development. TIF is used by developers where it is available not because it is needed, but because it is there. I'm not assigning an opinion either way, just putting things into context.

The mall was developed without the use of TIF, as were many other retail developments in our area. Had TIF been available at the time the mall originated, I'm sure the developers would have asked for it, not because it was needed, but because it was there.

Martha Duchild

10:13 AM, March 30, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Martha,

Good points, and I agree that with the availability of TIF, every developer seems to ask for it as a matter of course (I think the guy that built the storage unit on Big Bend in Crestwood had the gall to ask for it even). Most of the time, it is not needed, and development happens anyway. There is no question way to many projects have gone forward with TIF that should not have been authorized. It should be used in rare, exceptional circumstances. I would contend that Crestwood mall is one of those circumstances.

In the states that have abolished TIF, retail development still happens, but not in areas where conditions aren't perfect. If Missouri abolished TIF tomorrow, the outlet malls in Chesterfield (built on flat, empty ground surrounded by the second-largest collection of wealth in St. Louis County) still get built, but I don't think anyone would take on the mall project. It's the same concept behind giving teachers some loan forgiveness if they teach in poor inner city schools--you are providing an incentive for someone to do something they otherwise wouldn't do. The million dollar question (or 34 million dollar question in this case), is whether the incentive is necessary for the development or not. Given the dozens (over a hundred) developers that have twice passed on redeveloping the mall, I don't think redevelopment without TIF seems plausible. These developers passed on the RFP even with the possibility of TIF being there, and still weren't interested. With a slightly improved economy, maybe some more developers take a harder look this time, but I wouldn't hold my breath on one developing without tax subsidies.

Of all of the properties in Crestwood, the mall is the only off the top of my head I can think of that TIF seems necessary for. Just for comparison's sake (and I don't know of any current plans to redevelop it), I don't think TIF would be appropriate to revitalize a tired strip mall like the one in Crestood home to Office Max and Harbor Freight. Maplewood did that with the Deere Creek strip mall (and had good success), but that did not involve extensive demolition or site work, and was really just a freshening up of that plaza. To me, that is something the shopping center owner should bear the cost of, not the taxpayers of Maplewood.

The mall is a unique and expensive beast, and a "freshening up" isn't going to get it done--it's going to take a total demolition and a new concept from scratch.

12:22 PM, March 30, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"tired strip mall like the one in Crestood home to Office Max and Harbor Freight."
And
"2nd tier business along Watson Road"

Are not exactly beliefs that when expressed are going to give the current business 's in Creatwood a warm and fuzzy feeling that Crestwood is "business friendly".

10:32 PM, March 30, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:22 PM Blogger: That "tired old strip mall" does very well my friend.

Any vacancy's you see there are a sign of the economic condition's throughout the area.

Whether you want to believe it or not the failed socialistic policies of the Obama regime have created havoc throughout the retail industry.

The County is over built for the times, and it's now the cost per square foot that sells a vacancy, as well as location.

Watson Rd. is a very desirable location both for cost per as well as location, tired, old, maybe, but it works for the businesses, and ultimately for us.

Tom Ford

6:22 AM, March 31, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:22 PM Blogger: Have you seen the new store next to Harbor Freight yet ?

I was at that center Saturday and they had customers standing in line to make purchases!

Oh, and by the way, they train citizens in self defense,shooting skills as well as selling fire arms.

Nice business to have in Crestwood as it draws customers from all over South County who also may shop Crestwood while they are here.

All is far from being lost, were in the black, our funds are balanced, and were attracting new and vibrant business to town!

I say well done to the BOA and Mayor Schlink, were going in the right direction for a change.

Tom Ford

6:32 AM, March 31, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom,

I have not yet been in Southern Armory, but am hoping to soon. I am glad that a non Kash-King/Savers/Aaron's/Re-Sale shop has opened in Crestwood.

I assume they do not have a range?
I haven't heard anything recently, but that Office Max in that plaza may be on the chopping block as a result of the Office Max/Office Depot Merger. Putting a range in part of that space would draw from a large area I would think.

10:39 AM, March 31, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:22 PM, March 30, 2014

Good post. We will never know if the amount of TIF assistance that was requested by Centrum was justified or even warranted.... PGAV never did the study. The study was free and would have committed the City to nothing. The mall sets vacant and on the auction block.

11:23 PM, March 31, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:23 PM, March 31, 2014

You are wrong

1:01 AM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@1:01 a.m. (get some sleep man)

Half or more of Crestwood is frustrated with half of the current board and mayor for making that determination on their own, despite possessing no appreciable redevelopment experience.

Let's pretend for a moment that Centrum's plan was not viable, and the TIF amount requested was too high. Don't you think that determination would have carried more legitimacy had PGAV determined as much, and had the TIF commission rejected the proposal and presented detailed reasons why? People feel that the process got short-circuited, and that is a justified feeling.

7:23 AM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


"Half or more of Crestwood is frustrated with half of the current board"

And where are your figures to back either of these claims up, much less the BOA has 7 current members?
Let me do that for you 7 divided by 2 is 3.5. Wonderful.

Is it no wonder then, that you ask us to pretend?

9:06 AM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:23 AM April 1

I guess that means the other half is very satisfied with the mayor and board for making the determination on their own.

People are conveniently forgetting that PGAV already performed an initial analysis, and did not fully endorse the concept. Mr. Brancaglione offered as much when he made his presentation to the board. You can hardly criticize the BOA for taking Mr. Brancaglione at his word.

Martha Duchild

9:09 AM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@9:06

Cute.


Do you think national and regional retailers became more likely or less likely to consider becoming a part of the project after each time the BOA failed to move the project forward? Remember that the board showed their misunderstanding of the process by initially even rejecting Centrum as the developer, before the City Attorney and Centrum informed them that would kill the project immediately.

http://www.southcountytimes.com/Articles-In-Crestwood-i-2012-11-09-183733.114137-Board-Reconsiders-Rejection-Of-Centrum-As-Mall-Developer.html#axzz2xeI2ez6t

Had the Board consistently voted to move the process forward (all the while while negotiating with Centrum on issues of concern), Centrum may well have had a better chance to show some progress to the Board with tenants. If they still couldn't procure tenants at the end of the day, then the BOA could vote down the project even if the TIF commission approved it. Perhaps the BOA didn't realize that part though--they didn't understand the first part of the process, so it's reasonable to assume they didn't understand the latter part of the process I guess.

If I'm a VP at Cabela's or Ikea or any other prominent retailer looking at projects to get involved with, I see the hostility from the local officials, and I want no part of a project that probably won't get off the ground. It became a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Board poisoned the well and doomed the project to failure from the get go.

The scary thing is, they will probably do the same thing again, if another owner is brave/foolish enough to try to redevelop the property.

10:38 AM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


"The scary thing is, they will probably do the same thing again"

No the scary thing is if given a proposal like Centrum's that the BOA will not do it again.

Even former Alderman Tennessen finally saw the light and voted against Centrum.

2:33 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:38 AM April 1

You seem to be conflating due diligence with hostility. The Board members who voted against Centrum knew exactly what they were doing; they didn't like the project. There was no misunderstanding.

The BOA did move the project forward, just not in the direction that suited you. Not a single alderman was completely satisfied with the concept as presented by Centrum. Each had specific concerns, be it the tenant mix, the tax assistance amount requested, the lack of any concrete plans for Phase II, the potential use of eminent domain, etc.

Each of those items is a negotiating point. As a very astute and experienced negotiator observed in the Wall Street Journal: "In negotiations, you get something when the person across the table wants something from you, not after you have already given it away."

Martha Duchild

3:44 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No one, citizen, or aldermen, is going to be 100% satisfied with the mall redevelopment. Perfection shouldn't be the goal--a viable project should be. At one of the town hall meetings last year, Jeff Schlnk wanted whatever redevelopment that occurred at the site to be an economic engine for the city for 50 years. Considering Crestwood mall sputtered out short of 50 years, I think he has set the bar unreasonably high.

Until the final BOA approval of a redevelopment plan, the City retains ALL of the leverage. How much do you think Centrum would have been willing to bend if they had cleared the preliminary hurdles, passed the review of the TIF commission, had signed up tenants, were tasting the profits? You could have said "jump", and they would have asked "how high?"

I understand tough negotiating, but what the BOA did was dumb negotiating, not tough negotiating.

4:06 PM, April 01, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

4:06 PM, April 01, 2014

So if Roby or Roy had be mayor and they had approved the planner, where do you think Crestwood would be now?

4:39 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@4:39 p.m.

Either way better off or in exactly the same spot as we are now (but with an understanding that the City explored all of its options).

To elaborate, I imagine based on Gregg Roby's comments, he would have broken ties that Jeff Schlink did not all the way through (until a supermajority of aldermen was potentially needed). There is a chance that somewhere along the way, the one or more tenants would have committed firmly, and the project would have picked up steam. There is also the chance that going through the additional steps would not have yielded any tenant commitments, and may have instead resulted in more negative information from some source (whether a planner or the TIF commission). The project may still have fizzled prior to consummation, but at least the citizens of Crestwood would feel that the City gave the proposal the thorough inspection it deserved, rather than just a kick of the tires. I guess we'll never know.

“Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are, 'It might have been'"

5:40 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


"Either way better off or in exactly the same spot as we are now"

So you have no clue, yet you say if Schlink had broke the tie the people would FEEL better.

Kind of says it all doesn't it.

5:53 PM, April 01, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

5:40 PM BLOGGER: you know if the Titanic had missed the ice burg it would hav made New York in record time!

Sadly, it didn't. And IF Centrum had produced ONE prospective tenant, things might have been different as well, THEY DIDN't !

Forget the emotion, that and few bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.

Speaking of Starbucks has anyone bothered to notice that the bank across from it has failed to open? If we didn't allow that so and so was going o ruin us, remember ?

The developers of today seem to suffer fro a raging case of EBOTM ( everything but the money.) we just saw one, and.................

Tom Ford
.

6:25 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:40 PM April 1

What one or more tenants? Centrum never had Toby Keith's (Crestwood was never a first choice) nor did they have anyone else.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason there were no tenants is that they did not want to sign on to a development with a developer that lacked the financial wherewithal to see it through to completion? (See Novus)

The concept had no viability. You keep saying that Centrum would have negotiated, yet the evidence shows that when given the opportunity to negotiate, they refused.

"It might have been" indeed, but for those who were looking at things rationally, thank goodness "it" wasn't.

Martha Duchild

6:29 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We get you hate Centrum Martha.

I assume you will find all kinds of disparaging things to say about other developers as well if/when one ever emerges to take on this redevelopment. Honestly, and I ask this question seriously, would you support a project with TIF if the developer was:

Grewe?
THF?
Pace?
Sansone?
Koman?
Opus?
Novus?

Which, if any, major commercial developers would be acceptable? They all have their warts, many more so than Centrum in my opinion. Centrum may not look too bad depending on what is coming down the pike next.

It's easy to find fault with a project that is handicapped to begin with because of its location. We'll see if the developers knock down the doors at the auction I guess.



Lastly, "developer that lacked the financial wherewithal"...are you serious?
Angelo Gordon announces a new development every other week. I don't think finances were ever an issue.

8:48 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not so much the warts of the developer, but the development they present that has the warts. If any of the other developers you listed had brought the same proposal to the City while requesting $33 million in tax assistance, I hope the BOA would have said just no like they did to Centrum.

10:03 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:48 PM April 8

I don't hate Centrum. I have no feelings for Centrum; it's a company, not a person. I did not make any disparaging remarks about Centrum, either.

Thanks for agreeing with me about Angelo Gordon. I indicated to the BOA at the outset that Centrum's partner had $13 billion in real estate assets and, given that Sol Barket told the BOA he didn't need a TIF, there was no reason that Centrum should receive public assistance.

I think you'd also agree, if you chose to research Centrum Properties and Centrum Partners, that Centrum (not Angelo Gordon) did not have the financial wherewithal to undertake the redevelopment.

Martha Duchild

10:16 PM, April 01, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Centrum does not own the property. The owner of the property is AG/CP CRESTWOOD RETAIL OWNER, L.L.C., an Angelo Gordon Centrum partnership. It would seem Angelo Gordon was the investor/money and Centrum was the developer/project leader/creative leader.

As for the idea that a wealthy company shouldn't get TIF? They certainly don't "need" it in the truest sense of the word as they do have money, which was the point Sol Barkett made. However, they "need" it in order to put the project in a location with adverse conditions. These companies didn't become wealthy by taking on projects that were going to result in a loss, or break even, or small profits. A TIF in Crestwood is an incentive to take on the redevelopment of a problem property, rather than investing in a redevelopment with more favorable conditions elsewhere. Any company that comes forward to redevelop the mall will have sufficient assets where they "could" redevelop the mall without TIF (but wouldn't due to the adverse conditions), or the company would be too small to adequately manage a project of that scope.

Boeing's market capitalization dwarfs Angelo Gordon, and yet a dozen states, including Missouri, lined up to provide incentives to Boeing, in the hope to convince Boeing to move some of their manufacturing. Boeing didn't "need" the money, but the results in Missouri had they moved would have been economically positive for both Boeing and Missouri, even with the tax breaks/credits taken into account.

TIF, done properly, should be a win-win--the developer gets a nice profit, and Crestwood gets someone to develop a property that no one would otherwise be interested in without incentives.

6:59 AM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People aren't voting for Roby they are voting against Schlink.
All they see is a crumbling mall and no plan in place...from anybody.

9:48 AM, April 02, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

9:48 AM Blogger: Which one of the "crumbling mall" voters will present Mr. Roby with his magic wand if he were elected ?

In case it has escaped our "informed" voting block here in Crestwood, the Mayor has virtually zero control over that mall !

Don't forget we had a Mayor who told us he had it all tied up in a near little package with a red ribbon on it, remember ?

Oh, wait, it didn't work for him and it won't work for Mr. Roby either no matter how many MCU marchers he brings in from outside Crestwood.

I beg to remind all that the OWNERS will or will not come before the Board to see about a development, not the Mayor.

The owners will (or will not) have a plan that is viable for the next few years, not the Mayor.

The BOARD OF ALDERMAN will vett the plan (after the P&Z Board recommendation) and make the call, not the Mayor.

Our Mayor did exactly what he should have done, he abstained thus sending a message to the Board to go back and work it out as the charter intended.

EMOTION is not the father of success, but rather good business thought's and deed's. We saw that in Mayor Schlink.

What does anyone see in Mr. Roby that is so vastly different ? Oh, wait, I forgot that magic wand he would be presented with.

Tom Ford

Tom Ford

10:36 AM, April 02, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

Martha, Tom

GREAT POSTS
GREAT REALITY BASED POSITIONS

WELL DONE!

10:57 AM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does anyone see in Mr. Roby that is so vastly different ?


I think Roby is a little more personable and able to see and understand differing opinions. He strikes me as more practical and less ideological. I think he has a better chance of forging compromises among a divided board not only on this mall redevelopment issue, but other issues as well.

Perhaps the board members are too stubborn to compromise, and Mr. Roby will fail like Mr. Schlink did, but he deserves a chance to try.

11:24 AM, April 02, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

11:24AM BLOGGER: More emotion ? You bet. Sorry but two items I will take issue with, one is Mayor Shlink has NOT FAILED.

Two, sorry bu everyone does not deserve the chance to try. We saw that a while back when a sitting Alderman contacted Centrum minus the remainder of the Board,.

Results of that venture ? FAILURE.

Remember who is in charge per the Charter, hint, it's not the Mayior. We really don't need or want a loose cannon behind the curtain do we ?

Tom Ford

11:55 AM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

we need a leader not a middle manager. Mr. Schlink is a middle manager. I have no idea what Mr. Roby is.

3:21 PM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't understand the hoopla over Gregg Roby's campaign donors. As far as has been reported, they are all citizens of Crestwood, some (a minority I believe) of whom happen to be former aldermen/mayor.

I think outrage would be a little more justified if his donors were unions, special interest groups, companies doing business with Crestwood, Centrum, or the like. I just don't see the issue, and if that is the worst thing you can slander the man with, I don't see him losing this election.

3:39 PM, April 02, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

3:21 PM Blogger: " I have no idea what Mr. Roby is."

Are you really telling me that even though you have no idea what Mr. Roby is, you support him ?

Well I have been to a rodeo, two goat roping's and a Cinimax and never have I ever heard of such an inane position !

I guess that's the norm now ?

Tom Ford

3:48 PM, April 02, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

3:39 PM Blogger: I don't see any "hoopla" at all, I see legitimate questions.

The one that comes to mind is if all that you said is true about the donors, and it sounds right to me, is why wouldn't he name them at the debates ?

That is a glaring error for a candidate who said he is for complete transparency, and that's the question here.

Now, do you have an answer ?

Tom Ford

3:55 PM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roby is attached at the hip to Roy. He is Roy light at best.

That alone is enough for me to vote for Schlink

4:29 PM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roby would say only that he and some former aldermen – whom he would not name, though he was twice asked about contributors – are among top contributors to financing his campaign.


He actually did disclose that former aldermen were among his supporters, but just didn't name the individuals. I'm fine with that level of response--so long as individual Crestwood citizens and not groups/organizations/companies are the donors. Obviously he has to report donors to comply with the ethics laws, but I don't think a debate concerning policy should be focused on whether Mr. Smith, Mr. Jones, Mr. Pickel, etc. were Mr. Roby's donors.


As for Jeff "Mr. Transparent" Schlink, I seem to recall him negotiating (with what authority I wonder since the BOA never approved any counteroffers...) with Centrum in private continuously, and even agreed to a media blackout for 30 days. That seems a little more egregious to me:

"Schlink told the Call this week that he and Barket agreed not to discuss the redevelopment proposal with the press for the next month."








On a side note, I would have loved to see the Sol Barkett/Jeff Schlink debate materialize:

"I am challenging the mayor to a debate at the date of your choosing, so long as it is soon," Barket wrote. "We will debate these and other outrageous claims the mayor continues to make unfounded ... He is not qualified to make statements and comment on anything that he says to the press and constantly ignores the facts, not because he is a bad guy but because he doesn't understand the issues and is simply not qualified to make the assumptions that he does ..."

Now maybe Sol Barkett doesn't know what he is talking about, but he has developed far more properties than Jeff Schlink, and I do find it interesting that the two people in the room with development experience (Sol Barkett and John Brancaglione of PGAV), both accuse Jeff Schlink and the Board of not understanding redevelopment.

Certainly makes one consider that the accusations have some validity.

4:42 PM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On another side note, it would be wonderful if all of these anonymous people would sign their names to their posts! What is so daunting about signing your names?

Martha Duchild

8:23 PM, April 02, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

4:42 PM BLOGGER: one and only one question from me friend ( others may have some, but I have but one.)

Do you really believe these comments you posted ?

Tom Ford

8:28 PM, April 02, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

Martha, it's easier to hide in the shadows and spew the drivel than to identify yourself.

Who knows someone might actually know who you are ! Cowardice runs rampant in Crestwood don't ya know.

Tom Ford

8:34 PM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More things Mr Barkett has more of than Mr. Schlink would be bankruptcy's
failed developments, changes in his company's names, changes in phone numbers and law suits by a former female employee.

Darn that Mr Barkett is a sweet heart.

11:41 PM, April 02, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Roby is a salesmen and not vary good one. His proposals, questionable at best, lack depth, value, and simply never solve a problem.

5:59 AM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

inch deep and mile wide, too thin to plow, to thick to drink

6:42 AM, April 03, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

4:42 PM Blogger: "As for Jeff "Mr. Transparent" Schlink, I seem to recall him negotiating (with what authority I wonder since the BOA never approved any counteroffers...) with Centrum in private continuously"

I read this and read this until it dawned on me that YOU and the rest of the Roby supporters want it both ways don't you.

You all complain about Mayor Schlink NOT negotiating with the mall people, and yet YOU complain when he does it! Just true to form, disingenuous and hypocritical to the core!

Like supporters, like candidate?

Tom Ford

7:48 AM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You all complain about Mayor Schlink NOT negotiating with the mall people, and yet YOU complain when he does it!


I want him to negotiate properly, not like an amateur.

And why does it matter if people post on an internet blog anonymously? Does signing one's name make the opinion more valid or correct? I think it's safe to say no one not living or working in Crestwood is going to care enough to come here, so I think it's safe to say the posters all live or work in Crestwood.

Would the opinions be more valid if we sign them Dr.____________? There are few things more pretentious than calling yourself a Dr. when you don't have a MD.

9:52 AM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:52 AM April 3

Actually yes, signing one's name adds legitimacy to the post, as it holds the poster accountable for what is said.

Martha Duchild

10:19 AM, April 03, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

9:52 AM BLOGGER: pray tell how do you know if OUR MAYOR didn't negotiate properly? And while I am at it, how do YOU know where the posters on this Blog live?

You may have noticed that I have readers / posters from 12 countries, do YOU track them?

I think your trying to lay a smoke screen for your candidate, it's a good thing you didn't command a destroyer in the war, your screen would have gotten the whole fleet sunk!

Tom Ford

10:34 AM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No smokescreen Tom...more like pulling an aircraft carrier into a harbor.

I wholeheartedly endorsed and supported Jeff Schlink in his last election. And he has done an okay job. Just okay. And he has disappointed me on several occasions. I don't think the world will stop turning if he gets reelected. However, I am planning on voting for the challenger because I don't think the incumbent has done enough to justify another term. In 3 years, maybe I will support a Roby challenger if he fails to live up to my expectations, or I'll support him as an incumbent if he meets or exceeds my expectations.

10:47 AM, April 03, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

10:47 AM BLOGGER: could you explain wht it is your not happy with? The Mayor of any community can't please all the property all the time.

For instance I am extreemly unhappy with a challenger who professed no working knowledge of the ways and means committee., a rather important group don't you think?

Tom Ford

11:18 AM, April 03, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...

Tom,

Don't waste your band width responding to anonymous posters.

They are like ghosts to me, I dont believe in them.

12:14 PM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Mayor of any community can't please all the property all the time--true, but he better please most of the people most of the time.

That's the beauty of living in America and elections. Votes will be case for incumbent and challenger, and we'll see where the chips fall.

12:16 PM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


The City's failure to redevelop the property that brought the most cars to Crestwood (the mall) has led to another casualty:

Gordman's announced they are closing their Crestwood store. Looks like Best Buy will stand alone in a space designed for 3 large anchor establishments.

Inaction has a price.

1:29 PM, April 03, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

1:29 PM BLOGGER: I don't suppose that the closing you mentioned has anything to do with the fact that the economy is fraught with un employment, obamacare problems, and retail in general being down.

Look at every community in the area,, empty store fronts, for sale signs, and us that YOU would invest YOUR money now.

Better yet, tell us what your candidate, magic wand and all could do to change any of that.

The City has failed to develop the property? No indeed, the City saved us from a large mistake with a developer who,couldn't.

Tom Ford

2:42 PM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the last week alone, I received large ads for the new Menard's in Manchester, and the new Gander Mountain in Fenton. Another new Menard's is under construction in Richmond Heights. Gander Mountain is actively looking to open additional stores in the Metro area. Sure the economy isn't great, but a lot of other areas are bouncing back better than Crestwood. It's not like Gordan's is going out of business ala Circuit City or Service Merchandise. No, their other stores are remaining open, just the Crestwood store is closing.

Is Jeff Schlink personally responsible for another store on Watson closing? No, but in the aggregate, I see more dilapidation than progress in Crestwood, and ultimately, the buck stops at the top. I imagine Gregg doesn't have a magic wand, but I imagine he could coast like Jeff can--anything above that effort level would be a bonus for the city.

2:52 PM, April 03, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

2:52 PM BLOGGER: Surely your not suggesting that a man who admitted he had no knowledge of the ways & means committee ( he would be the chair) is better than Mayor Schlink, are you?

We don't have time to train him in the workings of the job, nor do we have employee time to waste explaining it to him.

Now as to his other skills, well as Ross Periot once said, " Just because you can run the corner store doesn't mean you can run Walmart!"

Tom Ford

3:28 PM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

but in the aggregate, I see more dilapidation than progress in Crestwood,
Tell that to Mr. Roby's right hand drinking buddy, Roy. With Gregg it would be back to the days of Roy, but without the West Va accent.

5:20 PM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“People want leadership, and in the absence of genuine leadership, they’ll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They’re so thirsty for it they’ll crawl through the desert toward a mirage and when they discover there’s no water, they’ll drink the sand.” That’s what this election is about.

Say what you want, but the Mayor has not been able to achieve many of the important items he based his last campaign on:
- A Pay Plan for the very employees that make the City what it is;
- Unity to the BOA
- Only job cuts/losses would be through attrition (Animal Control, Secretarial positions consolidated, IT manager was forced out even though it seems to be an elimination through attrition).
- The Mall project moving forward in some form
- Employee morale (Good, long working employees are retiring due to the lack of leadership within the City)

Time will tell if the outsourcing of various jobs, ones that the Mayor clearly supports, will save the City money in the long run. You may argue that the Mayor does not make the decisions of the day-to-day operations, but the one that does make those decisions does answer to him and the BOA, who have the authority to either support or not support these decisions.

The Mayor can claim that he has helped the City balance the annual budget it submits to the Ways and Means committee, but anyone who knows the internal working of the process, knows that the CA (includes former ones as well who did a masterful job) and city staff have been the driving force behind that. Also, just because someone works for a financial firm, does not mean that they have a better financial background than someone who has not. The Mayor may have input and oversight into the budget of a department he manages, but there is a true financial leader behind the scenes running the process. Submitting numbers for a departmental budget does not make you financially savvy.

So TRUE LEADERSHIP, I think not. Therefore, even though the other candidate may not necessarily be the best candidate (and there is no implying that this is the case in this race), people will vote for change and a person who may fill the role as the TRUE LEADER that Crestwood so desperately needs.

No emotion here, just the plain facts laid out.

10:46 PM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:46 Anonymous Poster

Here are the plain facts, taken directly from Mayor Schlink's 2011 campaign brochure:

1. Use my extensive experience managing budgets to ensure Crestwood is well-managed.

2. Continually fulfill my promise to you to be a taxpayer watchdog.

3. Apply my professional skills to work effectively with the business community.

4. Employ my negotiating skills to help the Board of Aldermen work together.

5. Ensure city services operate as efficiently as possible.

6. Treat Crestwood residents and business owners with the respect they deserve.

Just making sure the facts are represented properly.

Martha Duchild

11:23 PM, April 03, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Use my extensive experience managing budgets to ensure Crestwood is well-managed.

Grade: C. Efficiencies gained through service elimination and outsourcing. Overall financial picture continues to deteriorate. Last budget was not proposed as balanced, and only became balanced with unexpected additional sales tax revenues and utility taxes from unseasonably cold winter. As all funds are reliant on sales taxes, overall financial picture should continue to deteriorate with more store closings.

2. Continually fulfill my promise to you to be a taxpayer watchdog.

Grade: N/A. Promise is too vague to be graded.

3. Apply my professional skills to work effectively with the business community.

Grade: D+ The Economic Development Commission did not meet during your first tenure as mayor. As an afterthought and something to campaign on, you created the Business Advisory Committee, which while a potentially positive step, would have been more sincere had it been proposed some other time during the last 3 years, and before you were criticized for the Economic Development Commission's failure to meet. Have managed to attract several predatory businesses that prey on the dumb and uninformed--Aaron's Rent to Own and King of Kash.

4. Employ my negotiating skills to help the Board of Aldermen work together.

Grade: D. On the big issues facing Crestwood, a compromise was unable to be reached, and rather then engage yourself more fully in the process, you chose to abstain and remain aloof so you could put the blame on the aldermen for a failure to reach a consensus. Only thing that prevents a failing grade is the recognized difficulty in convincing some aldermen to compromise or think critically. It is recognized that this task is only slightly less difficult than Kerry's attempts to bring Palestinians and Israelis to the table to forge a peace agreement.

5. Ensure city services operate as efficiently as possible.

Grade: B- The best decision you made was hiring Mark Sime, who deserves most, if not all, of the credit for efficiencies gained, although as noted above, such efficiencies have been gained through service elimination and outsourcing, which can only go so far. The failure to address the adverse fundamental and structural issues facing Crestwood and finding additional revenue streams will lead to future inability to provide adequate services without tax increases.

6. Treat Crestwood residents and business owners with the respect they deserve.

Grade: B+ Meetings are run well, if not efficiently. Allowing everyone a chance to be heard is appropriate. Some time limits on non-critical issues should have been implemented (as almost all other municipalities and boards enforce). Lengthy meetings are sometimes necessary when weighty issues are being considered. If every meeting is lengthy though, you discourage average citizen input and participation, which disengages the citizenry. Grade is further reduced for current campaign "spin" trying to put a better portrayal together concerning your handling of the Centrum negotiations. Bending the truth insults the intelligence of the voters, and demonstrates a lack of success.

GPA: 2.06
Final Grade: C

7:14 AM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.southcountytimes.com/Articles-In-Crestwood-i-2014-04-04-191991.114137-Gordmans-Plans-Move-To-Arnold.html#axzz2xv5R8pGf

Who would have thought that we would live to see the day where Arnold--ARNOLD!--poached a Crestwood business like this. When Jeffco is considered a better place to make a profit than Crestwood, the situation is more dire than previously thought. That is just embarrassing.

7:30 AM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

7:14 AM Blogger: I would like to see just what if anything your candidate could or would do differently considering the restraints of the Charter?

Let's look at your number 6 for instance he called Crestwood businesses "second tier," He spent over $750.00 on a campaign party at a local establishment and has not mentioned their name!

Number 3, what management skills would he possess and where did he get them from?

I could go on and on but I think you get it by now, you do get it, don't you?

Sorry but as I have stated before, we can't afford to do on the job training, and from what I have observed your candidate would need an extensive amount of it.

Grade for the challenger: D- at best.

Tom Ford

7:48 AM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

7:30 AM Blogger: Guess what Arnold has that Crestwood doesn't?

That's right an active interstate highway that allows new customers to see the retail center!

People here like to quote PGAV as a knowledgeable source right? Well they noted that the lack of an interstate near the old plaza was / is a significant problem.

The urban sprawl action has taken it's toll on more places than I care to count. Sorry but it's another one of those pesky facts that hamper the campaign of Mayor Schlink's opponent.

Tom Ford

7:58 AM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gregg must have misspoke. King of Kash is a third or fourth tier business.

8:06 AM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The lack of a close interstate did not however stop the old mall booming. (I thought the interstate was close to Watson road).....I guess I was wrong....!
accessing the mall down Watson road also allowed the customers to pass the many businesses along Watson road. No worse that leaving 55 to access 61-67.
That old tired excuse just doesn't wash.

8:10 AM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

8:10 AM Blogger: That was then, this is now! As you may or apparently do not know the concept of the 60's is over.

It's now all about get in and get out, and a mall like we had doesn't wash with that.

Are YOU going to call the planning firms and tell them they don't know what their doing, or should Mr. Roby?

Tom Ford

9:08 AM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

8:06 AM Blogger: Mr. Roby has apparently forgotten a lot of things, like what a "Ways and Means committee" is. Sad isn't it.

Tom Ford

9:10 AM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@8:06

That's just false Tom. And you're better than that.

10:03 AM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Unknown said...


"That old tired excuse just doesn't wash"
Really? If that's true how come the owners of the mall before Centrum, dumped their upgrade money in the properties they owned along or next to Interstates? IE West and South County? And remember they ignored Crestwood Mall while that great friend of TIF's and Roby, Mayor Roy, was in office.

This is the type of pretzel logic we are going to be force fed if Roby wins. First Gregg will blame any failures on Mayor Schlink, just as Obama has done with GWB.

Next Roby will attempt to sell the tax increase that John Foote pushed for in his years as an Alderman and just as Roy did within 45 days of his first being elected.

Then the City spending will increase under the guise of "improving" services. Like what, having our our own precious animal control officer and a return to a "full" staff of under worked overpaid executive secretaries? What will they do, get coffee for and Danish for our full time mayor?

It make no sense that those who attack Mayor Schlink for running the City as a business now want to replace him with a man who has no experience in running a business. It makes no sense to have a Mayor who claims the City needs more tax dollars, but doesn't understand the role of the Ways and Means Committee, much less a profit and lost report! It makes no sense to remove from office a Mayor who by running the City as a business has increased sales tax income by 14%, has improved the City's cash on hand by $500,000, with out tax increases or having mortgaging the City's soul with a TIF exceeding the City's own economic policy by 33%! (a policy if I might remind you dear readers, that Alderman Robby voted for while in office!)

Yet, that is exactly what those who support Gregg Roby are asking the voters to do.
Pure pretzel logic.


10:50 AM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"full" staff of under worked overpaid executive secretaries? What will they do, get coffee for and Danish for our full time mayor?

You get the prize for most degrading, insulting, rude remark on here so far. It is one thing to question mayor's performance. It is another to disrespect and degrade someone's job, which, I'm guessing, you know next to nothing about. Really uncalled for.

12:53 PM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really? you think it is degrading, insulting, rude to state the truth?

When asked what the worst thing was about their jobs the executive Secys of Crestwood said they didn't have enough to do.

So keeping them on the payroll is your answer?

Maybe in liberalville, but not here.

1:08 PM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

about the response I expected. Thanks for staying true to form. Consistency counts.

3:34 PM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

Blogger Crestwood Independent said...
What's false, listen to his response when asked about ways And Means.

Tom Ford

11:11 AM, April 04, 2014

So sorry, I had to re do it as I to do it on my phone and the fingers didn't work all that well.

Tom Ford

3:44 PM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

3:34 PM Blogger: What no refuting of the statements? I take it whomever this is they nailed it or you would be shouting to the roof top's!

Unfortunately your candidate (or his supporters)seem to be running away from quite a few things lately.

Tom Ford

3:52 PM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Performance rating

Services ( police, fire, public services) still running and 100% effective. What will Roby improve ? Be specific.

Revenue increasing. What will Roby improve? Be specific.

Cash reserve tripled. What will Roby improve? Be specific.

3:55 PM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:06 PM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

5:06 PM BLOGGER: You do not get to insult the population of Crestwood, Roby supporter or not, unless you sign your name!

Tom Ford

5:21 PM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

Reminder: your going to try to get remarks I don't allow by, your wasting your manicure.

I allow you to post here out of a sense of community, challenge that, and POOF, no post!

Tom Ford

5:43 PM, April 04, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

In the oft chance that you would like to know what the poster (a Roby supporter) said that caused me to drop the comment's, here it is.

"Crestwood has a pretty sizeable lunatic fringe."

Is this what we get with the candidate as well? We saw that once before from the Dias, we really don't need an extension of it now.

Tom Ford

6:26 PM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Google
Crestwood mayor debate.

The positive attitude presented by the mayor is far more compelling than the negative doomsayer preaching from the challenging candidate.

Roby has accomplished nothing for the city, offers no solutions just problems and negative attitude. According to Roby we are lost and he can save us but offers no content explaining his solutions for eliminating loss.

The Lunatic Fringe!!!!!

9:27 PM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Lunatic Fringe?
WOW, that's almost as bad as calling the "Society for the Enrichment of Centrum" the Peanut Gallery.

10:28 PM, April 04, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mall vacant and up for fire sale auction. Another big box store closing. What is left to outsource to cover Gordman's loss. CA better get out is pencil and do the math... If they did $8 million in annual sales we need to cut another $290k in revenue from lost sales tax and business license fees from ONE business. What is the plan Mr. Mayor & BOA?

Wal-Mart redevelopment in Shrewsbury, Sunset Hills gets a Chick-fil-A, Richmond Heights a Menard's. Another Menard's going in in NORTH COUNTY at an old mall! We get Kash King, Thrift Store & Rent-to-own and a lecture about a "Development Tools" policy from 8 years ago.

1:09 AM, April 05, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

1:09 AM Blogger: What's your point other than you stayed up too late?

Let's see. Menards, near an "old Mall." Well that's less than 1/4 miles from I-70 right? That makes perfect sense to me.

Wal-Mart, we have a Sam's club so were not going to get a Wal-Mart right next door.

Your candidate can do NOTHING AT ALL to change the latitude and longitude of Crestwood, so having him in would do nothing for us. OK it might give the MCU a place to meet, but other than that, he can do NOTHING to change our Board's makeup, and thus their position.

"Developmental Tools Policy" AH, your candidate voted for that policy, remember?

Once a policy is in place, according to the rules it must be amended, why didn't he go before the Board to get the change instead of marching around the parking lot with his friends from the MCU?

And while I am at it, why did he invite and side with a group who seek to tell US where and how to spend our money? Why did / does he side with people from outside Crestwood (At least one of the contact's lives in Sunset Hills.}

Now it's time for you to tell me more of the current mantra spouted by your group instead of answering the questions I have put to you. Be advised though that when you do that you show the readers just how shallow your candidate really is as you have no answers.

Tom Ford

8:22 AM, April 05, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to know what, in light of Mr Roby's hype and concern he, if God forbid, became Mayor would and could do to bring in those 1st tier business that he and Mary Duncan are always dreaming of?

I'd like to know who he would appoint to fill the opening on the BOA?

Instead of bringing up a change in the "Developmental Tools Policy" that he votes for as Alderman under his best buddy Mayor Roy, Mr Roby is asking the P&Z Commission to look into changing our code to require business to be built in brick.

Now that sounds like a business friendly conflict of interest position to take doesn't it?

Inch deep and a mile wide.

9:36 AM, April 05, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@9:27 pm

That's nice you know how to work a camera phone Steve.

Jeff is a slick talker--reminds me of another "Hope and change" candidate who was a nice orator and didn't really have a lot in the way of solutions to offer.

11:34 AM, April 05, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Roby was selling his bricks at p &z commission meeting. Poor presentation. He commented that the NEW business replacing the Kentucky Fried Chicken was violating code. When Mr. Pratt was asked about the violation he remarked it was before his time and knew nothing about the violation.
Roby then attempted to retract his earlier statement. The recording is available.

Demonstrates Robinson style management.

11:39 AM, April 05, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom:

My point is that we sit back and do NOTHING, but make excuses... "not on the interstate", "not going to get one of those stores", MCU this MCU that, while other cities successfully redevelop properties that have similar limitations to the old mall. I don't know Mr. Roby. Never met him. I have met Mayor Schlink... nice guy... not a leader. As for the "Tools" policy, I don't care if Roby bought into it or not 8 years ago... It's now like the Captain of the Titanic screaming about how the design specs of the ship claim it is unsinkable after they hit the iceberg. It is being used as and excuse.

Meanwhile we cut services, decide to "Hot Seat" police cars and call it "cool" without understanding/committing to replacing those vehicles every year.

We extol our current balance sheet while ignoring the fact that it is temporary...Ironically, at the same time claiming our finances preclude us from providing our ever dwindling number of employees proper wage adjustments. No more Animal Control, IT, secretaries left to cut. Police and fire are cut to the bone. Next round of cuts will impact those services. We have upwards of another $250k worth of lost sales tax to make up for. What is the PLAN?

12:04 PM, April 05, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As the saying goes, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Martha Duchild

12:38 PM, April 05, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have n' t heard a good story for years. Martha ..unless you count BOA. ...Mayoral fairy tales.

1:40 PM, April 05, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

12:04 PM BLOGGER: Is it me, or did you not answer any of the questions I asked?

AllI see is more of the " I wish, or I want" but no answers.

As Martha said, don't be hampered by the facts. By the way, you said you don't know Mr. Roby.and yet you would vote for him, why?

Why would you cast a vote for an un known enity who while making promises has no plan!

Mayor Schlink plans to see the results of the auction, and then, and only then make his recommendation to the Bosrd.

Never forget he Board is the authority, not the Mayor, so don't be fooled by what he says he will do because he holds no power to do it!

Tom Ford

2:55 PM, April 05, 2014  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of funny stories (and not letting facts get in the way of a good story), let's all remember that Crestwood Mall/Court/Wasteland is 1.8 miles from the I-44 Exit at Lindbergh. It's about 2.1 miles from the Watson I-44 Exit. And a mere 1.4 miles from the Big Bend I-44 Exit via Sappington.

And guess what? The retail megapolis that Manchester has constructed--Consisting of a Wal-mart, Best Buy, Costco, and Menards (and others)--That would clock in at 2.8 miles from the I-270 exit at Manchester. Coming from I-64? You're looking at over 4 miles.

We are not Wildwood or Oakville who are truly far away from interstates--we are closer than other cities that are cleaning our clock. We just lack the boldness to make a splash and use all available economic tools to promote development. We just sit back and wait for things to come our way. We abstain while others vote yes. We are risk adverse to the point of paralysis. The personality of our mayor permeates the organization. How many CEOs got to where they are by being timid? Not many. And that is what happens when you elect someone who works in "Compliance".

I'm sure Jeff is good at what he does professionally. And he would probably make a pretty good department head. I want someone with a little more fire as mayor though. With Crestwood's location and school district, we have a lot of untapped potential.


3:08 PM, April 05, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

3:08 PM BLOGGER: Take notice of the anchor stores please, our developer couldent draw anyone much less them

Please also remember that the Courts would have been. 10 1/4 % tax area. Who would pay 3% more to throw a bowling ball than right down the street? Retailers know that full well.

Also you say you want a Mayor with more
" fire," great but what you would get is Mayor with all hat and no cows!

Tom Ford

3:52 PM, April 05, 2014  
Blogger Crestwood Independent said...

The real reason hy the " development " will have problems getting off the ground.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/180000-more-women-unemployed-march

Remember the spruce goose? It flew for a very short time Once, and once only. The same thing happened to centrum, their back on the deck with no further trips around here, AND IT WASNT OUR FAULT BYA LONG SHOT!

Tom Ford

4:14 PM, April 05, 2014  

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